In past years, I’ve rolled with only one pair of AT boots for the season, for 07/08 it was some Dynafit ZZeros, and the year before that it was a pair of Scarpa Spirit3s. This past season, I decided to try using two pairs of boots, some Dynafit ZZeros for longer tours into the high peaks, and a pair of Black Diamond Factors, for when priority was set on making big fast turns and lapping deep powder slopes, with less focus set on moving fast and light. I used the Factors for the majority of the first half of the season and probably had over 50 days in them this season.
Over all, I had no problems with buckles falling off, the BOA system failing or with the ski/walk mechanism. I really liked the stiffness , tour-ability, fit and skiing performance of these boots . The mod I did to the ski/walk mechanism did not seem to affect the overall performance of the boot, besides making me smile really big because of all the rearward movement to the cuff it added. I recommend it for anyone who likes to take bigger strides when they are skinning. Here’s my take on the rest of the boot.
Absolutely no signs of wear from rivits on the outside of the liners.
I’ve seen other liner manufacturers struggle with this.
Starting with the liner…though the fit and heel retention was great, I felt like they could be a bit thicker (read…warmer) especially in the toe area. On cold days I was forced to wear thicker socks to keep my feet warm. Luckily, in my boots there was room to accommodate the increased bulk, but I image others fit their boots a bit tighter. I ended up really liking the BOA lacing system. I would keep it on the looser side when skinning or booting, and then tighten it down for skiing. I think if the laces crossed your foot one more time down low, they would work even better and help keep your foot more securely in place. I did see some wear on the liner where the metal laces rubbed on the fabric. It didn’t affect the performance of them and in the big picture, the liners were very durable and show no signs of holes on the outside from rivets and buckles. Something other liners tend to have problems with.
Ski/Walk mode still rock solid with no slop.
With respect to the shells, I had no gripes. They performed great with no cracks (something NTN users dream about) or busted rivets. The ski/walk mode is still very positive with no slop, or movement when in ski mode. With respect to the buckles…none of them broke, but the latch piece on the very bottom buckle is a little loose, but doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. At times, I felt it was hard to unbuckle the bottom two buckles, due to snow build up, and I think a small tweak in the shape of the buckle would help fix this.
A little more shape to the lowest buckles would make
them easier to open when packed with snow.
One thing I wish the Factors had is some sort of gusset where the bottom of the shell overlaps below the bottom buckle. When the buckle were left loose, while booting and skinning, the area would allow for wind and snow to make it’s way into the inside of the shell, adding to the thin liner and cold toes mentioned earlier. Occasionally, I would pour out snow when taking the liners out to dry. I managed to make my own gusset out of duct tape. It worked decent at keeping the snow and ripping wind out, and was a simple fix. It wasn’t very durable, but luckily the temps rose before I got around to replacing the mod. Yeah, fine tuning the tightness of the buckle can help, but sometimes you need all the space you can get in the toe area when out on longer tours.
Small gap and view of low-tech duct-tape gusset when the lowest buckles at loosely buckled.
This can mean cold feet on frigid and windy days.
The “tech fittings” worked great and the heel piece always felt secure. I feel like BD could tighten up the parameters of the toe piece fitting though, as I occasionally felt like the space between the pins wanted to be bigger…or smaller…tough to tell. Skiing aggressively with Megawatts 99% of the time, I had no problems with pre-release though and this is without locking out the Dynafit toepieces. I’m trying to wean myself off that habit with big open, fast powder skiing.
Though showing signs of wear and one packed with rocks (easily removable)
the sole block bolts are rust free and still function properly.
I didn’t really do any long “Teton-style” approaches (long hikes on dry trails) with these boots, but the soles held up well non-the-less, with its fair share of hiking the road on Teton Pass. The “AT soles” are still very secure in place and show no signs of changing or rattling loose. The hex-bolts that hold them in place show a little wear and one has some rocks packed in it, but it is still possible to remove them and use an allen-wrench to remover them. I was worried about them getting rusty and either failing or making them unserviceable, but that didn’t seem to be an issue.
Overall I was very pleased with these boots. As it is now, The Factor is a top notch boot for ripping the powder on big, fat skis. The fit and performance is fantastic. The walk mode is unmatched by other boots out there, and I found them rather durable. Now all BD has to do is keep the fit, the walk mode, the BOA lacing, the height and stiffness of the shell, but shed a couple pounds and it will be the perfect cross between performance and weight savings that most ski mountaineers are looking for.
Steve, did you ever replace the AT/Tech sole blocks with the Alpine sole blocks? How did that work? How would it work if you did it many times over the course of a season? I heard a comment earlier in the season that the toe block could shift a bit after it was scewed on – any problems with this?
On thing I experimented with this year was molding my Zzero liners with a an extra closed cell foam pad under my toes to give me extra volume, which I filled with a chemical toe warmer pack on cold days. It worked well, and was lighter and cheaper than the electric toe warmer units.
I gave up on the BOA liners after a few days and put in some Intuitions. They’re just cold, heavy, and not terribly comfortable. I don’t know how (or why) you put up with the stock liners for 50 days.
A few hours of scrambling on bare rock left the AT soles in pretty ugly shape, but they still work and I haven’t had any issues (either in dynafits or dukes) as a result of the uglyness.
I’ve certainly had some issues (liner, walk-mode breakage, weak rubber) but I love the boots and can’t wait to get back in them in a few months.
Nice wrap up. I found the Alpine blocks wore so thin after about 20 days it was uncomfortable to click into my sth16 binders. I never did pre-release over the season, but the rubber is like balsa wood for reals!
I do like the AT blocks though. They are perty good. I wrote BD and asked them to make a vibrim AT block for 09-10.
The grinding granite found in the Sierra’s loves to eat the plastic off of boots. It ate the plastic off my factors. The plastic shell seems soft.
I did break the ski/walk pin in WA this year. Riding Praxis Powder Skis and pounding through heavy NW bumps with about 1′ of new sloppy snow did it perty quick.
Over all though… They are a great boot for a dual purpose boot. You can huck a 20’er with confidence in the same boot you can skin to Mt. Dana on… Hey Now!
Tony, I only used these boots with Dyanfit bindings…so I didn’t need to change the soles around. I had no problems with the soles shifting. I think it would get annoying to have to switch the soles around a lot through out the season.
Mike, besides being cold…I like the liners and the BOA. Most boots can’t hold up to much scrambling and still look good afterward.
Jason, thanks! I heard a few people having problems with the ski/walk mode. Sounded like there was some bad metal in some of the construction.
WORD!
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Sounds like you did some skinning/hiking with the Megawatts — what’s that like?
Heh, asking for a lighter Factor with more rearward cuff movement (cf your mod) sounds like you’d end up pretty close to a Dynafit Zzeus 😉
I did lots of skinning and hiking w/ the Megawatts. Breaking trail can be nice since you are always on top of the snow. However, you are always breaking trail unless the guy in front of you has skis just as wide.
I like the Zeus, but I think the cuff could come up a bit higher on the lower leg. More power!!!
Probably the worst boot quality my friend and I ever tried. A friend and I bought 20 days ago this boots, the first pair that failed was my friend’s boots at the 4th day of use with a normal use. The ski/walk switch failed and one boot got stucked in walk mode, really nice to ski by that way.
My pair failed the 2nd day of use, a buckle got broken, with a normal use…
I sent an email to BD and they wrote me: “…Also we have new Ski/walk mechanisms that you should both install in your boots…”
I asked in the store where I bought them, and they had no idea about this… Then I replied BD asking how to get the switch, and got no answer.
And they also wrote me: “…This is the first year for these boots and things are inevitable going to come up…”
Just because of this do I have to deal with defective boots?
My friend and my whole backcountry vacations in the Chilean Andes where screwed up.
I would really think about buying this boots.
Christian Traumann
Here you can download pictures of the broken buckle:
http://www.paradacinco.com/aboutfactorskiboots.zip
You may have to deal with a warranty Christian, as with any broken product still covered. That is unfortunate you and your friend had problems. I haven’t had any buckle or ski/walk mode issues, though I did hear they had some issues with some faulty metals.
What does “normal use” mean? Most of the time I see these kind of things happening when “normal use” means skiing hard at the ski area. Remember…the Factors are AT boots.
Probably the worst boot quality I ever tried.
After HALF A SEASON I found on my Factors:
1. „Nibbles“ on the ISO DIN alpine sole on contacts with binding (front as well as rear),
you can see a photo here http://www.freeskiing.cz/pokec.asp?ch_rel_id=1359&ch_rel_type=c
The bottom of the sole is almost untouched, the damage is not from rocks as this season I did not walk too much.
I had been using the same bindings (Marker Duke) on my Lange 130 and Garmont Adrenaline for many years. The Factors look like my Garmonts after 6 seasons of heavy usage. (and Lange are not even touched on the binding contact area.)
2. Cracked footbeds, (definitelly not caused by pulling them out). The first cracks appeared on the footbed after first day, little spacers under heel got broken afer two days, the whole thing got broken after 5months.
These boots are not skiable after a very short time, simple because the sole is not ISO DIN compliant anymore.
BD local representative told me that I have been using them, that is why they are damaged. I did not get any warranty repair.
Never buy them!
patrick…i find it interesting when people complain about the plastic of their boots getting marred up from walking on rocks, which it looks like what is going on with your boots. i haven’t had a single problem with my Factors, but all the boots I walk on dry trails and rocks with, inevitably look like your boots over time. i also find it interesting when people compare durability of AT boots to alpine boots. an AT boot is not meant to hammer the ski area, bash moguls, and go mach five on the groomers day-in and day-out. i’m not sure what the solution is, but i know i’m not interested in AT boots that are made of materials that make them bulkier and heavier. more durable yes…but there is always a trade off.
Thanks Randosteve for the good wrap up! I went yesterday and bought the boots from my local dealer, and really enjoy the fit etc. This w/e will know also how it works in the BC, can’t wait!
One question though, heard indeed that the first versions used different material for the ski/walk mechanism. And was now looking at your pics above; the metal in your mechanism is basically silver while mine is all black. Do I now have the old crap version and running risk of breaking it easily? Any ideas? I will do an early season 5 day tour in weeks time, don’t know if can trust and go with these…
Thanks for any help!
chamrando…i have the older style ski/walk mechanism. you should be fine.
Just swapped out the alpine for dynafit sole blocks, and it was enough of a pain that I find myself wondering if it is a bad idea to ski alpine bindings with the dynafit blocks on. Definitely heard of people doing this.. On the other hand I might end up preferring my BD Justice/Dynafit setup to the XXL/Pivot resort rig anyway.